The Fans Are Destroying Pro-Wrestling
January 17, 2006 by Jose Perez
This is the first time that I have decided to write a wrestling related column, so I hope I can receive some feedback.
Day in and day out, I read columns on how unsatisfied wrestling fans are, and how wrestling should be, could be and would be. Sure, Vince McMahon commits mistakes. Sure, sometimes the wrestlers don't give it their all, but above all this, there is one thing that has stood out to me as the main reason as to why wrestling is not as exciting as it was a few years back. THE FANS. You ask how the fans are to blame for something we have no control over" Well, I think that the fans do have control. Let me explain.
Many people know that wrestling has evolved throughout the years, as do all forms of entertainment. There were the WWWF days, the WWF days, the WWF New Generation, the Monday Night Wars, The Attitude Era, and finally today's wrestling. Out of all the fans that are linked to all these different eras, it's today's fans that really bother me.
Today, the fans watch wrestling, but don't really care who wins, as long as a good match, feud or storyline is taking place, and that's fine, but at the same time it takes away the essence and point of a match, the real purpose of why two people are facing each other. There are very few times where the fans have really cared about who has won a match. Some examples are when Chris Benoit won the World Title at WrestleMania XX, or when Shelton Benjamin beat Triple H on RAW. Besides that, we don't give a thought as to who really wins a match. Back in the old days, the fans always wanted a winner in a match. Bruno Sammartino held the WWWF Title for nearly eight years and was praised for it. The fans went crazy when the Ultimate Warrior was able to defeat the "Immortal" Hulk Hogan. Fans would go nuts when a face wrestler would win by a simple Disqualification. Today, if a match ends in a Disqualification, we blame McMahon for screwing up a storyline or destroying a good match, and that's why we hardly see Disqualifications anymore.
How many times have fans chanted "You screwed up", when a wrestler might have botched his spot" Almost all the time. Have you never screwed up in life" Have you never committed an error at work" Again, that takes away the storytelling in matches, and we care more about a moonsault that is botched up, instead of a man who beat the Champion for a Title. Sure, wrestling is entertainment, but when you get on the wrestler's back because he slipped or something like that, it ruins the entertainment value. How many of us knew back then, if a move was botched, or a match was choreographed" Nobody or hardly anybody, and that kept the excitement centered in the match. We would even cheer a mere punch leading to a start of a comeback, but now all we do is boo when we see nothing else but punches.
The fans have also turned wrestling into a parody. Every time a ref counts "two" the fans yell "TWOOOOOOOO". Two is part of the match, just accept it. Fans will chant "boring" if a match is not full of "high spots", blood or weapons. Back in the old days, the use of a weapon was seen as taboo, now a days, without them, we seem to get bored. When a referee receives a bump, the fans will start to look at the dressing room to see who will come down and interfere in the match. Back in the old days, a referee would get yelled at if he didn't catch a heel cheating or if he missed a face tag. The fans would yell at the referee, calling him "blind", "dumb" or any other name in the book.
Pay-Per-Views themselves have become meaningless because the fans have destroyed their purpose. Back in the old days, Pay-Per-Views would hold matches that were rare to see, or a first time ever. Ultimate Warrior vs. Hulk Hogan, Bret Hart vs. H.B.K., Randy Savage vs. Ricky Steamboat. Today, Pay-Per-Views are showing matches that we can easily see on RAW or Smackdown!. Why are the fans to blame" Simple. Back then, fans would watch WWF Television and enjoy a Superstar beating on a jobber, thus a Pay-Per-View would be much more meaningful, especially since feuds were built up longer and better. Today, fans would turn off the TV if we were to see Triple H face Speedy Delivery Jones, or Chris Benoit take on Iron Mike Sharpe. So, of course, if you're Vince McMahon, you're thinking "Man it's hard to make good shows day in and day out with Pay-Per-View quality matches, because that's what the fans want". Quite simply, we want quality television, and this leads to Pay-Per-View matches that are repetitive and have no special meaning.
Many people have blamed the Internet for the drop in entertainment. Well guess what" Wrestling Internet sites are made by THE FANS. We're the ones who decide to post news and spoilers on websites. We're the ones who decided to destroy kayfabe. We're the ones who decide to read spoilers, making us know how a match will turn out when we watch it on TV. Are you obligated to read the news on a website" Are you obligated to read the spoilers on a website" NO. So why do it, and then complain that the wrestling show was not stunning, surprising, or even that it was boring"
Not only are Internet sites used for spoilers and news, but the fans also use it to make a lot of contradictions. Yes, we are all entitled to state our opinion, but when we criticize one thing, then at the same time ask for the opposite to be done, it's hard to really know what the fans want. We claim that Chris Benoit winning the World Title was so special, and made the World Title more meaningful because he is the best wrestler the WWE has, yet at the same time, people criticize Batista for not having microphone skills or Triple H for using the same promos over and over again. WHAT THE HECK DO YOU PEOPLE WANT"
Back in the good old days, wrestlers got more over because the fans would accept the fact that they needed to be pushed little by little with the help of jobbers. Back in the old days, almost every wrestler got cheered, even the jobbers who got in some shots on the heel that was being pushed, because the fans actually thought that the jobber had a chance to win.
Today, all we do is criticize gimmicks without giving them a chance, like Eugene or The Boogeyman. Remember the debut of the Undertaker" How many people who saw that Pay-Per-View Live, can say that they not were impressed by the man himself, the way he looked and how big he was" Today, we see a gimmick and we're already bashing it when it debuts.
Why can't a match just have two opponents put together for the sake of seeing who the winner will be" Why not have a match to see who the best wrestler is to climb a step up the virtual ladder to the Championship" No, we have to nit pick about every match needing a storyline, but then as a contradiction, we wish for more wrestling in the shows.
The fans have the tendency to criticize a wrestler's ability, without realizing the need of having variety in the mix. We constantly criticize wrestlers because they can't "carry a match", they can't "put on a figure four" or whatever crazy thing we can come up with. But tell me this, is it really necessary" The Big Show is a 500 pound man, who uses his style to perfection. He's there to use his size as an advantage. Sure, he can't drop kick, but why would he want to, if he can step on your stomach and knock the wind out of you" Seriously though, it bothers me when people say that big men shouldn't get pushes because they can't wrestle, but tell me this, if you're watching a wrestling match, as much wrestling is a way of escaping from reality, can you honestly think that a two hundred pound guy is going beat up a five hundred pound guy like it was nothing. Why was Andre the Giant so successful" Because people saw him as unbeatable, and he played the unbeatable character perfectly, but now we complain about Big Show, because he uses a slap on the chest, instead of a hurricarana.
We dictate who a World Champion should be, but then complain that his push was too quick. What do people want" It makes no sense at all. I remember a few years back, people were saying that Cena would be the "Next Big Thing", and that he would have a WWE Title reign. Now that he's the WWE Champion, people are sick of seeing him carry the Title, and now want it on Angle (which I think deserves the title, because he is the best wrestler the WWE has right now). Back in the old days, Hulk Hogan had no ability and only had charisma, yet the fans just loved him as World Champion and could never get enough of him. No one was thinking, "Why is this man holding the World Title for so long"", "Why is this man not putting his opponents over"" etc. etc.
Many people say that a face chasing a heel for the Title is more exciting than a heel chasing a face. Why" I don't see the difference. Back in the old days, faces were the only wrestlers that held the World Title (mainly), and the fans still gave the Title prestige. Then when things started changing, with people like Sergeant Slaughter, Yokozuna etc., the fans didn't stop watching. The fans didn't start criticizing McMahon. The fans would tune in every week, to see who would be the "great" wrestler that would finally put the World Champion to his knees.
Sure, I criticize McMahon as much as the next guy. Sure, I think the WWE can be better in many ways, but seriously, why can't we all just sit back, and enjoy the product, like the good old days, and not be so nit picky. Why do we have to criticize every little thing, without giving credit to what the wrestlers are trying to put across" It would make wrestling more exciting and it would just make wrestling much more fun.
Day in and day out, I read how people "threaten" to stop watching the WWE and that makes me laugh. This leads to the fact that there are two types of wrestling fans, whether people accept the fact or not. Out of everyone who watches WWE, 95% of them are WWE fans, despite the fact that they claim to be a wrestling fan. Why" Because they never give any other wrestling promotion a chance, and claim other promotions are boring. Really" You can honestly say that a body slam in WWE is super exciting, yet when someone in T.N.A or R.O.H. does it, it's not exciting" What's the difference" C'mon, just because an independent promotion does not have the same production value or names as the WWE, does not mean that the wrestling is worse. It's the same damn sport, we're talking about. The same moves, the same action, so stop calling yourselves wrestling fans, when 95% of you are really WWE fans.
In closing, I just want to mention, that I've been living in Spain for the past eight years, and I don't receive WWE Television. I used to receive WCW Television until it got sold to the WWE. I used to get Smackdown! on a German channel for about two years, when all of a sudden they stopped showing it. Now I get TNA Impact! on Eurosport every two weeks and I love it. BUT, to all those people who write in, complaining about the WWE, saying that will stop watching it, saying how it sucks, etc. etc. I have two things to say. One; read what I have said and learn to appreciate wrestling more. Two; if you want to, let's trade places. Come to Spain, where they don't have wrestling, I will go back to Canada and believe me, when you live eight years without watching the sport you love like I have, you'll learn to criticize it a lot less, and will learn to just sit back and watch the great action.
by Jose Perez ..
[See What People Are Saying About This Column on the Forums]
Finally, finally! Someone has said what I have been thinking. I agree with you 110%. I was at first a "WWE" fan and I still am but I also like ROH, TNA, IWA-Mid South ect. ect. People bash WWE all the time only to watch it and then bash it. Make up your mind people! If you hate it so much why watch it" All in all I think this was a great article and I hope you continue to write articles of this caliber in the future.
Kobi Melamed wrote:
"We claim that Chris Benoit winning the World Title was so special, and made the World Title more meaningful because he is the best wrestler the WWE has, yet at the same time, people criticize Batista for not having microphone skills or Triple H for using the same promos over and over again. WHAT THE HECK DO YOU PEOPLE WANT""
Mr. Perez, I don't get your point. We liked Benoit winning the title because he's a great wrestler and he deserved it for quite a while.
We criticize Batista for his promo skills, because he doesn't have half the in-ring ability that Benoit has.
We can forgive a wrestler for his sub-par mic skills, if he's a good wrestler. Batista is neither (Though his mic skills are improving), and so we criticize him.
Your point about the jobbers on TV is irrelevant. It's not like the product sucked ever since they removed jobbers (Look at the Austin-McMahon feud, for example). It's not that the wrestling was spectacular or anything, it's just well-written TV.
"Why not have a match to see who the best wrestler is to climb a step up the virtual ladder to the Championship""
I think we just did. The NYR main-event (and subsequent mini-match) was all about "who will be champion". When Edge won, Fans were happy. They were happy because:
1. Edge is now the champion.
2. Cena is no longer champion.
You see" It IS about the championship after all...
I, for one, totally agree with what Jose said. I began watching WWE (then
the WWF) back when I was ten or eleven. I remember HBK and Janetty as the
Rockers. Undertaker as the Phenom and most feared person in the buisness.
Hell I remember the 1992 Royal Rumble that Lex Luger and Bret Hart gained
controversy on who won. Those times I didn't care about storlines at all. I
watched it to see who would win. How they would win. Now I tune into WWE and
90% of the show is talking or segments. Where are the matches" I'd rather
watch a thirty minute match of two technical wrestlers going head to head
before watching another lame promo by HHH.
I believe wrestlers with true skill do not belong in the WWE. Compare Rey
Mysterio now with Rey Mysterio in WCW. Frankly I would rather watch him in
WCW. Kurt Angle, Shelton Benjamen, Tajiri, Lance Storm, Rey Mysterio, ETC.
The list goes on about the talent WWE wastes. I love TNA and ROH because
they are all about wrestling. I believe the ROH Pure Wrestling title has
more prestige than any belt in WWE. I love ROH and TNA because their matches
are exciting and their superstars are talented. The fans who would rather
watch a storyline unfold or a wrestler mess up is not a true fan. A fan who
picks apart a gimmick before it even develops is not a fan. A fan who likes
a good quality match and can just sit back and watch it without knowing the
outcome or whats gonna happen is someone I want watching wrestling with me.
My ranting ends here and I hope when you watch wrestling next time you
actually enjoy the matches. Peace people.
Paul Fisher wrote:
I have to say that Jose Perez is absolutly out of his mind. I belief today's fan is much differant than even 15 years earlier. With the Internet playing a big role, and the ablility to see wrestlers from across the globe threw online video sites to even swapping tapes. But to say that we are ruining wrestling is pure hypocrisy.
The fans are wrestling, and letting people know what we want is fine. I find the problem with people making wrestling reality. Wrestling should be about entertainment. Jose your whole argument about "Big Show" is ridiculous. Nobody thinks show isn't great at being a big man. Look at the recent title run him and Kane have sustained. Or the fact it took what four finishers at the Survivor Series PPV to finish him off. The problem is not with him being big, the problem is his lack of luster in the ring. And the fact that nobody feels he paid his dues.
Now talking about Bruno holding the title for eight years, how much of that was televised. Was he wrestling every week or every month in a quote on quote PPV Main Event, NO!. Bruno was a great wrestler and man, and at his peek the people believed that he was fighting for his life. They didn't really "know" it was a work. Not saying they doubted but they were never sure. Plus Bruno was a italian immigrant in New York during the 1950's. He was a hero to those poor working class italian people who were treated as stupid mafiaso criminals.
Now talking about jobbers and the lackluster PPV buy rates. The reason there's no more jobber vs. star squash matches or very little. No roster room, people are paying hard earned money not just to see Triple H or Batista. The want to see people like the Boogeyman, JBL and Trevor Murdoch's.
The problem with wrestling is not the fan's smartening up. Because we all know in our heart of hearts we are marks for wrestling. And at least once we have been totally fooled into believeing something, only to be fooled.
The problem is the lack of real competition for Vince. I mean, let's face facts. Not one of the Diva's should ever hold a match. But every week there out there stinking up the ring in terms of the match. Now I love some T&A (and if your reading this Candice Michelle, call me!) And what about this "Live Sex" segment. I was appalled all night at WWE RAW, they cater to kids and then have such strong sexual overtones all night that is wrong.
Finally you complained websites, built by the fans. Spoilers and rumors coming out have always been there. The wrestling magazines aren't new ok. Plus I myself when I see the title "Spoilers" I don't read them. I want to watch and enjoy myself.
So Mr. Perez, I appalued your candure and your willingness to speak up. I think the biggest problem is that some fans no matter what are always going to ruin it for other people. But as a whole wrestling fans a a caring supportive bunch of people. Who thank the wrestlers for the show the put on.
M M wrote:
The thing is that there are three different kinds of wrestling fans: fans of
individual wrestlers, fans of wrestling corporations, and fans of wrestling
The fans of individual wrestlers are those that always cheer for one
particular wrestler no matter what he does (like Hulk Hogan and how he was
loved during both his Hulkamania run and nWo run) and always hate whomever
that particular wrestler hates. Fans of wrestling corporations are those who
are there to mainly support the product itself such as WWE fans, WCW fans,
or ECW fans. Finally, there are wrestling fans who are only looking for a
good match that involves good wrestling no matter where it may be.
Right now, I would have to say that the fans of wrestling itself are the
smartest. Sure, they are the most critical of wrestling, but they are also
the most honest. I am tired of fans rooting on their favorite wrestlers
simply because they like their look or style (I remember I only liked the
Ultimate Warrior only because of how "cool" his facepaint looked and I never
even saw him wrestle). I also hate the many narrow-minded fans (a.k.a. fans
of wrestling corporations) because no matter how much you argue with them,
they will always cheer for one particular corporation simply because "they
grew up watching it all the time".
The fans of wrestling are those who enjoy watching wrestlers give 110% in
their matches because it is only those kind of wrestlers that give a damn
about the fans and what they paid to see.
Nowadays, wrestling is being poisoned with this poor drama that wrestling
promotions enjoy showing us. Wrestling is not and should not be about
acting. Forget the stupid storylines and gimmicks, wrestling is about
cheering on a good fight and not cheering on a wrestler's poor attempt to
act like someone they are not. Every wrestler admits that they are happier
when they do not have to act like someone they are not because it gives them
more to focus upon and work on besides the quality of the match they are in.
However, it seems that wrestling companies are acting like high schools in
which if the owner of the company doesn't like the way you look or act, then
they will just leave you doing the most work and getting the least credit
for it. Like Paul Heyman said, it is the fans that make the wrestler a star,
not the owner of the company. The problem is that the owners of the
companies enjoy seeing the "favorites" shine in the spotlight even though
the fans may despise them (for example, Bradshaw in WWE and Jarrett in TNA).
These wrestlers get to do next to nothing and get paid while all the other
"outcast" wrestlers have to work more and get paid less. A great example is
when WWE bought out ECW. Veteran WWE wrestlers like Triple H got to just
talk and give speeches to the crowds while he got incredible amounts of
money. However, the ECW wrestlers that came to WWE after ECW closed had to
go through so much pain, punishment, and humility and still make incredibly
less than Triple H. This whole playing game of playing favorites is insanely
stupid and it is only the fans of wrestling itself that are smart enough to
know it. These fans are what make wrestling promotions get noticed and show
themselves to the world. ECW would have been nothing without the fans. Then
again, WWE never needed fans because they will never have to worry about
money because of Vince McMahon. No fan of wrestling itself appreciates what
WWE is offering because WWE has nothing good to offer. TNA actually does
offer good wrestling at times and the fans of wrestling appreciate it, but
they are still a little angry about the fact that TNA also has storylines
Todd Mata wrote:
Dude you nailed it! this is what the wrestling fan needs to hear and the major players should realize. The wonder why buy rates are down , thats why . that's the reason that people are turnig to other small groups as TNA and other locals to get thier fix on wrestling I hope that the big guys catch this and take it to heart
Rosie Mike wrote:
i agree with you. but i dare say if anyone actually admits to actually liking all wrestling on a forum then they get flamed like theres no tommorow about being a mark and being stupid since wrestling is so "fake". also about all the wwe fans a lot of them dont get a chance to watch other promotions. especially since the only wrestling aired wc on most tv is wwe and tna. therews only a couple states that show independant promotions. i know before i moved to florida all i was watching was wwe and wcw when it was still alive. but since i moved here i found out there was more than just wwe. you can say i was a wwe fan but that was just cause i didnt know about other wrestling promotions. and internet was fairly new to me growing up. but you have to realize its not the old days when there was a promotion in just about every state. im just gonna end it here now cause i dont know what else to add
Jack MacLaine wrote:
Wow, reading this article confused me untill you explained that you been living in Spain and don't have WWE. Well Mr. Perez if you saw what the WWE has become today, your article would change. The WWE is going under in flames because of the "entertainment" revolution by Vince McMahon. Where money talks and BS walk. Where bimbos with no talent get more air time than Chris Beniot and Kurt Angle. Where Gansta crappers turn important belts into spinning pizza pans. Where dumb big musle heads with no talent get pushed more tha Shelton Benjamin. And where RVD will never ever get a title shot as long as Calito and Chris Masters are crapping up the WWE. At this point, fans are BEGGING for a good match. Sure we will still play kayfabe and cheer for the face and boo the heel but WWE is so bad that people are now cheering the talent over the no-talent ex: Kurt Angle (talent) vs Cena (no-talent). All I have to say is watch TNA.
Paul Reich wrote:
Though I agree with almost everything written here, i
have one thing to argue with. If John Cena lost his
title because the fans were getting tired of him
having it, why did JBL have the WWE championship for
Jacob C. Yount wrote:
José, ¿que tal" I completely agree with your posting. I've lived in China for the past 4 years and I feel where you are coming from. The only way I get to see wrestling is whenever I find bootlegged DVD's (which are widely popular here). This is greatly hard for somebody who has kept up with the sport since the Jim Crockett days and Mid-Atlantic days. In China, it is hard to come by wrestling. I cherish every PPV, every compilation I can find. The other day I watched a PPV from 2003 where Vince and Steph fought, plus 'Taker and Brock in chain match....I loved it!!! By the smark's standards, that was a garbage PPV, but whenever you cannot see it but once every few months, it is the greatest event goin' down. Stop killing wrestling you smarks!!!
steven lavender wrote:
wow, did you hit it right on the hammer dude. that is exactly what ive been trying to say to all the critics and the naysayers and the assholes. i mean i like king of the hill i know its in its ninth season now and there not as sharp as they used to be but do i care no. i mean i just dont get how they can be fans and then critisize everything that they do. anyways thanks for making my ideas words and keep up the good work
Jon F. wrote:
While I do agree with you that we citizens of the IWC should stop nit-picking, some of your points are pretty pointless.
I don't see how the fans yelling"TWO!" when the ref counts to two is ruining the match, all the fans are doing is getting more involved with the match.
Secondly, your point on fans not giving other promotions a chance is also pretty pointless. All I read about is how TNA and ROH are the greatest promotions ever. For the people who don't like Indy promotions, they don't watch them because they are unfamiliar with the wrestlers, announcers, storylines, etc. WWE is the most widely known wrestling federation in the world, everyone is familiar with everything about it, even people who don't like wrestling know at least one WWE wrestler. I'll admit, at first, it was hard for me to watch other promotions, because I was so used to WWE's product, eventually I became familiar with ECW, WCW, TNA, and my local Indy promotion (Portland Wrestling).
You have some good points but you need to pay attention to all of them and decide which ones aren't needed.
Brian L. wrote:
I'm am going to have to agree with Jose on most of his points. Every pay-per-view now has to have some contrived blood feud or it's lame. Why can't the main event just be about pride and the title" Why does it have to be about pride, the title, and this guy ran over that guy's dog while this other guy was sleeping with both their wives" Isn't the glory of the belt enough reason to give it your all" It's getting ridiculous. And I will go out onto a limb here and say that I dislike fans that only watch one brand of wrestling. As a wrestling fan of over twenty years I see wrestling being a lot like sex, even when it's bad it's still better than nothing. Yes the WcW was cheesy as hell, and the storylines sucked, at the end of it's life, but the action was still mostly good with talent like Sting, DDP, Jarrett, Ric Flair, and the list goes on. The only point I would like to contradict you on Jose is the fact that fans are making wrestling a parody by shouting out "TWO!" at every near fall. I would like to perhaps suggest that fans realize that if they haven't seen a pet hold, or finisher, the match is going to continue, so why are they even going for a cover" I know it is supposed to add suspense, but if you know for a fact a kick out will come no suspense is added. I would love to see some one counts because of a sloppy cover or a small package that comes out of nowhere to pick up the three, or how about a three count off of a really big move that isn't the wrestler's finisher" That would add a good deal more suspense and cause the WWE to live up to one of it's slogans, "Anything can happen in the WWE." Maybe I'm just a little jaded because I have witnessed this slide for a long time, where heels have to cheat to win and to be hated and run ins are all too common, but I have to believe that eventually things will work out.
Satinder Bumrah wrote:
Hello, Jose Perez. Interesting article, but I do not agree with you. You say
"Blame The Fans". Why's that" If it wasn't for us, there would have been no
wrestling like today. Imagine a PPV Main Event. Kurt Angel Vs Eddie Guerrero
(Bless his heart) for the WWE Championship, and no fan comes to watch it"
Would you call that entertaining" Hell, all of us work our asses just to get
money, and watch a decent PPV Match, or even buying WWE Merchandise. Our
money helped WWE to get to where it is right now.
Jose Perez wrote:
I would like to thank everyone who has given me feedback on my article, both
via email and via the site itself. Every single email I recieved agreed with
my article 100% and some people saying that it was about time someone talked
about this subject. Here on the site, it's been a bit more even. Overall,
I've had people supporting my claim. But I would just like to respond to the
comments on my column that are here on the site itself.
snotsnit12 - Thanks
Kobi - My point about Benoit was, that we cheered when Benoit won the World
Title, beause he's the best pound for pound wrestler the WWE has along with
Angle, yet bash Triple H, because he does the same promos over and over
again, despite the fact he has good in ring ability. So I see hypocritical
situation. Compain that only guys with good promos should win the title, yet
wrestlers like Benoit should. Contradiction to me.
And didn't say the product sucked cuz there's no jobbers. I'm talking
about the fans in my article, and the fans back then would watch TV even
though wrestling had jobbers, something today's fans will not accept. Thus
that's why Pay-Per-Views are repetitive, cuz we want caliber style matches
on TV, thus less originality on Pay-Per-Views.
XStatic - You're an idiot. Shut up. HEHE. Just kidding dude, You're a friend
a mine, and we'll be friends forever........No I won't give your real name
out, don't worry.
Paul Fisher - Big Show comment I made, was an example, not a direct attack,
because fans today always say on forums and columns that they don't want big
men. About Bruno Sammartino, he defended the title almost every night,
because yes, wrestlers back then fought every night, just like Ric Flair
defended the NWA World Title on a regular occasion, so did Bruno Sammartino,
and non-televised shows had title changes, and there were regular TV shows,
and occasionally mainstream newspapers carried results from wrestling
events. From your next comment on jobbers, seems to me (I could be mistaken)
that you are a recent wrestling fan, because the comment of no jobbers
because no roster room, makes no sense. One because in the 80s and beginning
of the 90s, the WWE would pay local people to perform as jobbers. So that's
what I mean when I refer to jobbers, not like WCW who had 100 guys on the
roster so Goldberg could go through all of them, or guys like Val Venis who
are payed nowadays cuz he doesn't get a push. Back then local men were
picked to job, and there were very few regular jobbers (aka Barry Horowitz,
Mike Sharpe, Brooklyn Brawler etc).
M M - Like your point.
Rosie Mike - I agree that other federations are not exposed, but there are
columnists who I've seen many times say, WWE is the only federation, the
indys suck etc etc. That's not a wrestling fan.
Jack MacLaine - I've been in Spain for 8 years, but I have as much right as
any to speak my thoughts. I do follow wrestling ineternet wise(although it's
not the same). I do read columns on what people say about today's wrestling,
and that is what I talked about in my column (for example, noone criticized
Hogan for not being able to wrestling, yet today every column says, they
want no talent people out), and that has nothing to do with watching the
actual product. I've been watching wrestling for life, so I know my
wrestling. I've had Smackdown for a year, so I have a base. And like I said,
McMahon screws up also, it's not all fans. I've always criticized McMahon,
even in my Canada days.
Paul Reich - That's my point exactly, why you so obsessed with asking
yourself why" Just accept it and it's over. And if you really want an answer
to that, well fans boos Cena when McMahon tried to put him over as a face,
which means, it failed. JBL was meant to be a heel and the fans booed the
hell out of him, even if it was heel heat or true heat, and like Mcmahon is
gonna care what kind of heat it is.
Jacob - finally someone who can relate to me.
Jon F - The "TWO" thing, was just a little something to say, but not like
that's the actual thing that's killing wrestling. Both fans and McMahon have
made wrestling a parody, and that's just a little example of it. Back then
fans would go OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO when fans thought there would be a winner
after the two count. Today we go TWOOOOOOOOOOOO, cuz we thing we're cool and
smarky. In one sentence you disagreed and then agreed with me. You said that
lots of columns are saying that TNA and ROH are the greatest feds, and if
you read my column, I didn't say if they were great or not. But then you
come and agree with me in saying most people don't watch it becaue I don't
know the name. That's my point, being the exact same sport, with the exact
same excitment, with the indys producing more five star matches in one night
than the WWE in one year, people watch WWE just becase it has the Boogeyman,
JBL, and HHH who can talk, instead of watching men who can wrestle, and then
these people have the dignity to try to call themselves WRESTLING fans.
D. Robin wrote:
"We claim that Chris Benoit winning the World Title was so special, and made the World Title more meaningful because he is the best wrestler the WWE has, yet at the same time, people criticize Batista for not having microphone skills or Triple H for using the same promos over and over again. WHAT THE HECK DO YOU PEOPLE WANT""
The reason we criticise Batista's promos skills is because he doesn't have any, which unlike Benoit can't be covered up with his in ring ability. Think about it this way, if Tyson Tomko would have been put in Evolution instead of Batista then he would have been World Champion for almost a year.
I have to say, I have been a WRESTLING fan most of my life. Although, when I started watching wrestling, about all we ever knew about was WWF . I have to agree that NWA/WCW left alot to be desired in the "production" area, but at least the matches were more realistic than most of even the old days WWF. I agree that SOME fans ruin the expirience of watching a match, but I feel that Vince is ultimately to blame for the serious drop in WWE entertainment.
I enjoy my TNA and ROH. I enjoyed NWA/WCW and ECW, and again, none of them have/had the production capablilites that WWE has or had back then. I watch wrestling for the matches, the skill.. To me wrestling is about entertaining me. 500 ppvs in 3 months is a bit much.. It's not entertaining to me if they overkill. I don't even buy the PPV anymore. Why spend my hard earned money when I can wait a day or a week and see most of what happened anyway..
I don't read spoilers online. The only thing I do online reguarding wrestling is look to see what NEWS there is.. The "brand" sites dont usually post any real NEWS about wrestlers unless it's something that they want to promote. I have found that if I want to find out about something to do with a particular wrestler, or anything else in the wrestling world, like the REAL Hall of Fame inductees, not just those Vince wants to tell me about.
If Vince would find a way to put something like an X-division into WWE, or even bring back the Hardcore title for that matter, I think it would do alot to infuse WWE. Perhaps the majority of the reason fans, whichever type you want to talk about are coming down so hard on WWE is that they have lost sight of what the product is supposed to present to it's audience. Since the split of WWE int RAW and SMACKDOWN brands, with little flip flopping of talent, WWE's product is very lackluster.
I agree that Big Show is VERY much in the style of Andre the Giant. I think it's a great thing. But if your going to use him in such a fashion, don't discredit Andre's legacy. I am thrilled at the Big Show/ Kane team.. I had hoped for it, or at least a version of it, for quite some time. But, most of you remember a year or so ago, when they didn't do much with Show. He was around, but wasn't much to watch.. More like a "filler" match.
As for your Benoit/ Batista match. I think most of you are forgetting that we are talking about 2 completely different styles of wrestling. Benoit is an excellent technical wrestler, reminding me of Kurt Henning and Bret Hart Batista is more of a powerhouse. He is the personification of the "all brawn no brain" jock. And, as I recall, Benoit wasn't such a great presence on the microphone back when he came to WWE, let alone in ECW. There are just some people who don't do as well with "speaking parts" as they do when they're beating the hell out of people.
Now. As a true WRESTLING fan who has watched more wrestling matches, live, telivised and PPV, than I care to mention, I have a HUGE complaint about WWE that I have yet to read from anyone. WHY CAN'T THEY JUST KEEP RIC FLAIR OUT OF THE RING"""" Arn doesn't wrestle anymore, why" he's too old! Even Roddy Piper, and Jerry Lawler barely make ring appearances for more than talk, why"" THEY'RE TOO OLD! Flair was great, BACK IN THE DAY. That day is OVER. < and at least when Piper and Lawler get into the ring, they're flabby, ex-muscles are cover sd they aren't flubbering all over the place with each movement.>
Well... I've said my peice. Like it or hate it, your chioce.. Just my Opinion. Thanks for giving me the chance to post it
Sami Joer wrote:
my names sami and i live in australia. im a wrestling fan but we only get
wwe in australia so does that mean i cant call myself a wrestling fan. i've
seen ecw, wcw, and tna but thats only because ive downloaded some matches
from those companys. i know alot about wrestling(not just wwe) so i
personally call myself a wrestling fan.
Kyle Cronin wrote:
Well for the most part, I agree that fans have ruined wrestling, but you have made a couple of invalid arguements which of course will just make your theory stronger if you can argue my points.
1. You claimed that we don't care who wins the match, but we'd just like to see a good quality match and a good storyline involved. I agree with that, except I don't care whether or not there's a storyline. But later, you claim that we read spoilers and know who's going to win. Then we watch the match on TV, and say, "This is boring." If we don't care about who wins the match, then why would reading the result of a match differ our opinions" It's not like the detail in the spoiler (which isn't something I personaly read, but I'm sure others do) will ruin our opinions.
2. I believe the only reason people criticize Batista for having shitty mic skills because he can't do anything else either. And as far as Triple H goes, he doesn't really say the exact same thing over and over, he just seems to have a point to prove to everyone, and he wants to spend a month proving it, which can actually help a storyline. In that sense, I've always complimented Triple H for that.
Oh, and the reason why people don't insult Chris Benoit's mic skills is because they know Benoit makes up for it in the ring and he makes a really good technical superstar. These fans are called smarks, and they don't give that much of a shit about mic skills and storylines. Now the less smart fans DO insult Benoit. I've read them all over the place, "Benoit doesn't make a great champ. He has no mic skills, which means no charisma, which means no gimmick." Of course these fans provide proof, but they're idiots and try to relate Benoit's massive charisma and his... plain... gimmick with his mic skills.
3. You claim it's so terrible that we can't have a match ending in a disqualification (DQ) because we want a winner out of each and every match. That's not me, but I can understand why some fans would want less matches ending with a DQ result. Yet later, you ask why we can't just have a match with two wrestlers and one winner, just for the sake of taking a step up the ladder to the championship. You claim we want a storyline in every single match. Why would we hate WWE so much if we wanted a storyline in every single match"
4. We claimed Cena would be the "next big thing" but believe me, most of us weren't happy about it. And we don't care if the fans liked or hated Hogan "in the good old days" (should I add an "e" on the end of old" Just kidding) If Hogan was superstar today, he'd get the shit booed out of him, unless he got a better finisher and went straight to nWo.
5. Something you didn't mention was that if the internet was available back "in the good olde days", fans would have probably transformed wrestling anyway. As long as telecommunications are available, fans are going to criticize more and more.
6. Why can't you enjoy a good olde fashion WWE body slam like they did "in the good olde days"" Believe it or not, a body slam brought 93,000 fans (well actually about 78,000 but don't tell Vince that) to their feet as well as millions of people at home. But all the sudden, you criticize the fans for liking a WWE body slam from the Big Show over a hurricane rana" Or was it the other way around"
7. I disagree with the fact that the people who don't like WWE end up watching it, because myself and plenty of my friends have stopped watching. If I notice it's on, I admit that I'll see if anything good's on. If I see Viscera making love, or Triple H with a dummy in his arm, I change the channel. If I see Kurt Angle vs. Chris Benoit, I'm sure as hell watching.
I do agree that fans (well marks, because of WWE's MARKeting) contributed to the ruining of modern professional wrestling, but it's not like WWE's concept hasn't done anything.... Wait, it's been eight years since you've been actively involved with watching WWE" Who the hell are you to talk"
The 1mperfex Collector wrote:
I agree with Kyle, but another problem is the lack of depth WWE Creative has been doing. They throw out dumb choices like Henry as a main eventer, Spirit Squad, and blowing up Eddie's lowrider in less than two weeks after he DIED.
As for Triple H, I respect him, but the problem is that he sometimes hog too much spotlight for himself. Ok, some may disagree, but he seems like trying to make himself more important than others (like Benoit). But I respect the fact that he is like that because he is good at pissing people off, which leads to having fans heavily criticizing him. Of course, some people should respect the fact that he congratulated Batista after their Hell in a Cell match, and he didn't go after Cena's title as soon as he come back.
Batista is okay, but some people sees him not going through a 30-min. long match. But the real problem is that he's 40, so that makes him a target for some fans. I don't mind Batista, but WWE Creative shouln't trash him with a World Title - Sexual Harassment Lawsuit angle with Mark Henry (who is leaving WWE this summer).
As for Cena and Hogan, Hogan was still popular, but going to the nWo gave him more of a long term credit when fans saw him go heel. Cena was also popular when he became a heel rapper (with some good skills in the beginning), but making him more of a face instead of a tweener (like Stone Cold) just had fans divided, including the fact that his moves were narrowed down to almost six when he had other nice moves like the Throwback, the Spinning Fisherman Suplex, and the Diving Crossbody (he did that, didn't he").
Also, around the days of Hulk Hogan, gimmicks were okay, but today, they throw stuff out to anyone (except Kennedy) that seems like the gimmick wouldn't be too popular, unless there's good talent, then maybe. But used to become squashed by current superstars and filler for events isn't good.
One last thing, how can we enjoy something like everything WWE tries to put in front of us if we don't like it in the first place" From soap opera stories to seeing some annoying stuff (like Kurt going Anti-American, but fans still respect him) doesn't work. Some people would get fed up over certain things, but there are times where we had enough and want to express ourselves. A movie can be great if there is too much stuff that turns off the audience.
But there's always hope for something positive. Besides, that is what freedom of speech is all about.
Adam Claus wrote:
It is not very often that I read an article of this magnitude. I think that the fans of today have definitely led to a downfall in wrestling. I see this mainly in the WWE Divas. These women are paraded around to gain the attention of the fans so that they will pay attention in the other matches. Thinking back a few years, I don't recall people like Alundra Blaze(Sunny) dressing in skimpy clothing like Trish Stratus does today. And, thinking about what happened on RAW tonight, there were a total of 5 matches. Even looking back to a random RAW that happened in 2000, there were 8 matches. There has to be good story development now or no one really cares. I have to say that I am a true wrestling fan. I want to see wrestling matches take place with wrestlers. I don't care if it is Ric Flair wrestling the Brooklyn Brawler, just as long as it is a real match. I honestly miss the jobbers of yesteryear. I admit that these people can still be seen on the WWE low shows, but these shows aren't even carried on stations anymore because the fans don't really care. Sure, Sting is an old guy and so is Ric Flair, but these guys are honest and will fight a good fight. These new guys coming in are very selfish and could not care less. What is the last legitimate tag team that you have seen" The new tag teams are just two superstars that are teamed up for a while. I would even go as far as saying that the Rockers were a good tag team, because they were a team. Now, there are no real teams.
Jose, You have lost your mind and your marbles. But that is
only the half of it: Read what Jack wrote at the
bottom. That says it all:
Jack MacLaine wrote:
Wow, reading this article confused me untill you
explained that you been living in Spain and don't have
WWE. Well Mr. Perez if you saw what the WWE has become
today, your article would change. The WWE is going
under in flames because of the "entertainment"
revolution by Vince McMahon. Where money talks and BS
walk. Where bimbos with no talent get more air time
than Chris Beniot and Kurt Angle. Where Gansta
crappers turn important belts into spinning pizza
pans. Where dumb big musle heads with no talent get
pushed more tha Shelton Benjamin. And where RVD will
never ever get a title shot as long as Calito and
Chris Masters are crapping up the WWE. At this point,
fans are BEGGING for a good match. Sure we will still
play kayfabe and cheer for the face and boo the heel
but WWE is so bad that people are now cheering the
talent over the no-talent ex: Kurt Angle (talent) vs
Cena (no-talent). All I have to say is watch TNA.
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