CARD6: Bill Foley vs Thirdwarren

[Goldenboy79]

Bill Foley vs Thirdwarren
Who deserved a world title more? Davey Boy Smith or Owen Hart?

Please confirm your choices, and the user who chooses first will start the debate

[Bill Foley]

I know you want Owen, so I'll pick Davey Boy Smith.

[thethirdwarren]

You could have taken whoever you wanted, but sure I'll take Owen!

[Bill Foley]

Good question. Who deserved a World title more, Davey Boy Smith or Owen Hart? Davey Boy is regarded as being one of the best "Strong" men in the history of the business. Possessing power and technical abilities Smith was a main event package. Smith had become a major international star and had a huge following in Europe and Canada. Now don't get me wrong Owen was big internationally as well. Unfortunately most of his following outside the U.S. and Canada was in Mexico.

Davey Boy's Value would grow in the early 90's. WWE was beginning to grow a big following in the U.K. as well as the rest of Europe and were very dependant on the Bull Dog. Davey Boy was featured in many main events in their many tours in Europe. Which brings me to my point, At this time WWE was really marketing their package at a global level. Focusing on the European market by providing separate PPV's. All this would Culminate at Summer slam where Smith would be in the Main event facing his brother in Law, Bret Hart, for the Intercontinental Title. He did something Owen was never able to officially accomplish, defeat Bret Hart for a title.

Smith's draw as an international superstar should be reason enough, but hey why stop there. As an in ring performer Davey Boy was second to only to a few. He would participate in countless main events, some of which would be for the World Title. He was a strong man who didn't have to rely on just his strength. He had a strong technical background which meshed well with most of the mid-card and Main Event performers of his time. Smith was able to put together a good match with who ever he was put up against. Unfortunately, as with Owen Hart, he seemed to have his greatest success against Bret Hart and would seemingly be over shadowed by this legendary Canadian.

Smith's ability to be repackaged multiple times with good amounts of success are a testament to his versatility. Smith was able to play both sides of the fence. Even when he was a "heel" character he still managed to maintain popularity. Something that usually didn't happen for the "heels". Usually the bad guy just doesn't sell well. I bring up these kinds of things because A World title usually required three things. In ring ability, ability to entertain, and marketability. Smith had All three of these through out most of his career. The formula should have gone in his favor at least once. But unfortunately a few things would weigh down his career. Steroids/HGH, Pain Killers, and Bret Hart. Bret was just too big a star for any of the mid card Technicians to move up the ladder.

In closing let me just point out a few things. Smith was a proven main event talent on his own. Owen relied on the draw of the Hart name which Smith would later duplicate. Both men have actually held a world title but never for a major company. Davey Boy Smith will forever be remembered as one of, if not "The", Greatest Wrestler from the U.K. and that should matter for something. To use a phrase from the man himself, "There's no bull in this British Bulldog".

[thethirdwarren]

Owen Hart. Member of the LEGENDARY Hart family. The little brother of arguably the best technical wrestler to ever get in the ring, the LEGENDARY Bret Hart. Trained in the LEGENDARY "Dungeon" by his LEGENDARY father Stu Hart. I know the readers are getting the "subliminal" hint. The Hart name carries an aura, a prestige that is undeniable and is summed up in one word: WRESTLING. The Hart family gave everything for the business. Unfortunately, as well as oversight and personal vendettas, that passion is what ultimately hindered Owen in his rise to most likely being one of, if not the best wrestler ever let alone a well deserving champion.

First and foremost, if there is one thing that has continually praised about Owen, it was his in ring work. His ability to make anyone he worked with look incredible. Maybe even a little better than his big brother. He helped make the likes of Austin, Edge, HHH, Michaels, even his brother look tremendous in those feuds. He also showed he could make a teammate look great with him, winning the WWF Tag Titles with The British Bulldog, Yokozuna and Jeff Jarrett. I'm sure we're all very familiar with every one of those names. He was just overflowing with in-ring story telling and being able to carry a match so effortlessly, two very important aspects that are painfully missing these days. He could do anything asked of him in a match and would do whatever he could to make a match look like art. And a person with this talent should be deserving of a WWF World Title run, right?

It's not like he wasn't recognized and known for wis work. He iss a very well accredited performer. 4 time WWF Tag Team champion, 2 time WWF Intercontinental Champion, 1 Time WWF European Champion, USWA Unified World Heavyweight Champion, 1994 WWF King of the RING, 4 seperate championships and a memebr of the Hall of Fame with Stampede Wrestling, and multiple awards and recognitions including Rookie of the Year in 1987, voted ahead of Ray Traylor (Big Bossman) and Shane Douglas. He was even the FIRST western wrestler to win the IWGP Junior Heavyweight Championship, a very respected championship even to this day from New Japan Pro Wrestling. His track record speaks for itself. So why no WWF World Championship?

The simple and unfortunate truth of the matter is that Owen Hart was a constant victim of circumstance. In his early career he was performing in his brother's shadow. As many times as that has been cited in the past, it is the truth. Bret had the in ring work AND the GIMMICK to push him into the limelight. Owen, while showing he exceeded most of his peers in the company, never got a gimmick he could stick with and run away doing. His biggest character was the jaded little brother of Bret, which even if performed well (which it was) will never do anything more than show Bret as the bigger more known brother. The latter part of Owen's career was in a time period where ALOT of mid and upper mid carders weren't given as much of a chance to shine with the World Title. The Rock, Bret, Michaels, HHH, Undertaker and Austin were the golden children of the company. Those were the waists the title was was going to be placed upon. Much like Hogan's WWF and WCW days, and today with Orton/Cena/Taker/Batista, the belt goes on the guy who's most marketable, not necessarily the most talented performer.

Owen's natural nice guy demeanor got the best of him, and he was mostly used as a talent builder, while not a bad thing, doesn't earn you the credit and recognition he deserved. Plus add to the fire that old Vince McMahon way of thinking, where he holds a grudge forever. His personal vendetta towards Bret when he left affected Owen. Not only was it noticeable to the fans that he wasn't intending on pushing Owen but he tried to stick him in storylines Owen didn't agree with morally, which lead to the Blue Blazer's return which lead to the tragedy that saddened us all. Not only should Owen have received at the very least a moderately long WWF World Title run, he is also probably the most under-rated mainstream wrestler of all time!

[Bill Foley]

What is a World Champion? A World champion usually is one of the best representatives of your company. He has established himself as a top competitor and consistently performs at a high level. A world champion has to be able to handle all comers effectively. These are all qualities Davey Boy Smith had.

Davey Boy always carried himself as a champion. He came in everyday and gave it 100%. He brought out a level of competition is his opponents that most didn't. You knew when you saw Davey Boy in the ring you were getting quality. You were gonna be told a story that not only could you relate to, but you could believe as well. If all you saw was the Bulldog match, then you usually saw the best match on the card. In that lies the problem. Davey Boy was very capable of putting anyone over and bringing the top guys to the next level.

He always seemed to be setting up the next World Champ for his shot. One of the most important examples of this is the 95 Royal Rumble in which he and Shawn Michaels started out the rumble and ended it. The Bulldog seemed to have won but as we are all aware only one of Michaels feet hit the ground. Why do I bring this up? It would spawn the most infamous rule in the rumble and set up Shawn for his push at Wrestle Mania. He was able to take the High mid-card guys and move them up into main event status. Other guys that were great at this, Bret Hart, Chris Benoit, Ric Flair, and Kurt Angel just to name a few. All of these guys were world champions.

Originally Posted by thethirdwarren

Trained in the LEGENDARY "Dungeon" by LEGENDARY Stu Hart. The Hart name carries an aura, a prestige that is undeniable and is summed up in one word: WRESTLING. The Hart family gave everything for the business.

OK so I took out the parts with Owens name in it. This statement can also be said of Stampede Wrestling Hall of Famer Davey Boy Smith as well. He came to Stu before he even turned Eighteen. Was trained in the dungeon and later became an official member of the Hart Family when he married Diana. He is a Hart and has carried the Hart Family tradition as well as any Hart family member.

Davey Boy was known as a tag specialist which can be hard to break away from. The Bulldog not only broke away from the team format but carried himself well. He established himself as a main event force without having to use his connection with the Hart Family to much. Over and over again he headlined PPVs. He was everything but a World Champion.

Originally Posted by thethirdwarren

It's not like he wasn't recognized and known for wis work. He is a very well accredited performer. 4 time WWF Tag Team champion, 2 time WWF Intercontinental Champion, 1 Time WWF European Champion, USWA Unified World Heavyweight Champion, 1994 WWF King of the RING, 4 separate championships and a member of the Hall of Fame with Stampede Wrestling, and multiple awards and recognitions including Rookie of the Year in 1987, voted ahead of Ray Traylor (Big Bossman) and Shane Douglas. He was even the FIRST western wrestler to win the IWGP Junior Heavyweight Championship, a very respected championship even to this day from New Japan Pro Wrestling.

I read the Wikipedia rundown of Owen Hart too. I'm not trying to say Owen didn't deserve to be World Champion. The question in debate here is who's more Deserving of the World Title. Smith did the very best he could for all his peers. He has accomplished a lot as a wrestler, things most of us will never do. But is he better than Owen. Yes, to me most of Owen's accomplishments came from the Hart name alone. Not to say he didn't work for them but the Hart name carries with it an aura to paraphrase somebody. It's easy to put a belt on a Hart. Davey Boy came by his Golden moments more honest in my eyes.

It can be said that Smith in a different time, Like maybe now, Could and would be a World Champion. I think in his prime he could hang with the best of today. I don't believe the same can be said for Owen. The Bulldog is a timeless character and performer that can be compared well to any of today's top performers.

Lastly, Davey Boy was an extremely versatile performer that could do anything against anyone. He's been in hardcore matches, Iron man matches, and submission matches just to name a few. There wasn't anything he couldn't do, isn't that what really makes a man a Champion. He's a proven top guy, an international ambassador for the WWE, and a Hall of Famer. What more should a man have to do to be deserving of a world Championship.

[thethirdwarren]

Okay, so I'm going to make this simple for the people who read it. I could easily discredit my opponent by putting out that the British Bulldog wasn't as sound in the ring as Owen. I could say he wasn't marketable because his character was boring. I could touch on the fact that his "rebuttal" is just a regurgatated version of what I stated just one post ago. I could even make fun of British Bulldogs ridiculous long "braids" or whatever they were that never caught on, but I won't. I only need to ask five questions to the wrestling fans.

1) Who was more entertaining, both in ring and out?
2) Who was a more memorable wrestler?
3) Who was more gifted in actual wrestling ability?
4) Who was more accomplished as an in ring performer?
5) If I gave you one vote for the Hall of Fame, who would you vote for out of the two?

The answer to all five is Owen Hart. I don't want to drag out the debate to shoot the glaring holes in my opponents arguement. Saying Owen couldn't compete in today's era but Bulldog could is simply ridiculous though. Owen is most comparable to a Christian of today. Gifted at every aspect of the business but either over-looked or not liked enough by management to get the major belt push he deserves. Bulldog, on the other hand, is closer to Masters. He's big and yes he does have some in-ring talent, but it's nowhere near enough to deserve the main belt.

Bulldog's main problem is he wasn't that memorable during his time. He was most known for being a tag team wrestler. And a great one. But on his own he was, at best, a stepping stone. He was not "World Champion over." Owen was at multiple times in his career. Just because the Bulldog trained with Stu also, does not make him as good, or put him on the same level as anyone else from the Dungeon.

My opponent just seems to read Bulldog's accomplishments and think "he should've been champ" without paying attention to reality. Champion isn't just about accomplishments. And even if that were the case, there are dozens of people higher on the list than the Bulldog, Owen included. He just wasn't THAT popular or over or marketable to be champ. Owen was but wasn't bigger than the guys ahead of him during his time. Owen is hands down the better choice between the two.

[ThomC1010]

Good job guys. Up to the judges now, best of luck to you both.